SLROC Forum
General Category => TECHNICAL CHAT => Topic started by: mudTerrain on November 15, 2011, 10:57:21 PM
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Hello,
so, after changing the injector harness, cleaning all the oil out of the ECU loom and connectors at both ends and fitting an EGR bypass kit, my td5 Defender started first time and was fine...until tonight, when it's back to refusing to start again...
So, I've been under the bonnet with a torch and have discovered that the vacuum line from the alternator/pump isn't connected to anything any more... I imagine that whatever joint *was* there to join the vacuum pump to the EGR modulator, brake servo and the line to the ILT modulator was loose, giving me starting problems (I assume a complete lack of vacuum would do that?) and that it's now completely broken and fallen off on the way home tonight - I noticed the brakes were suddenly very hard to use...
I've tried knocking together a jury-rig connector tonight, but with no luck - I can't find a picture or diagram of what should be there, though, so I don't know what to buy to replace it, either...
Has anybody got a diagram or part number for the part I'm apparently missing? The Haynes manual simply lists it as part 14 on page 4B-13 (Defender '83-'07).
Thanks for any help with this,
Paul
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Right - ignore all of the above... ::)
I managed to find a diagram of the vacuum system and, as mine's an early Td5, there is no ILT valve - the only thing the vacuum system runs is the brake servo - I've still apparently lost part of my vacuum piping, but it's probably not that that's making the engine refuse to start...
Back to the drawing board on this one, I think...
Paul
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I cleaned the oil out of my harness at the ecu once, used white spirit. It cleaned the oil but was very poor at connecting the pins (non starter) , so had the then wash it with fairy and water, started after it was dried.
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Thanks for your reply,
I sprayed all the connectors on my ECU loom with switch cleaning solvent and left them to dry for a week before spraying them up again, leaving them for a day and then plugging it back together, so I'm fairly happy it's not oil anymore...
Mind you, the Bl**dy thing still won't start, so I'll give it another spray and see where that gets me...
Can anybody tell me exactly what the vacuum line from the alternator/pump to the brake servo does? I've been offered a blanking plug for it, but I'm not sure if that means I can just get rid of it (the brakes certainly don't pressurize without it...)
Thanks,
Paul
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i would get it diagnosed before you go any further it may be the imobiliser or something unrelated
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Thanks - that was my next move...
I've borrowed a Sealey VS8700 diagnostic tool, which is supposed to be ODB2/EOBD compatible - it plugs in and powers up, but can't talk to my Defender...
I've read various stuff on the internet saying that Land Rover didn't make their ECUs ODB compliant before 2004 - mine's a 2001, so am I flogging a dead horse, here?
Any ideas would be much appreciated - I feel like I'm clutching at straws here...
Thanks,
Paul
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you really need a nanocom or hawkeye, most of the eobd stuff is no good, the other thing to try is the imobiliser using the eka code input using the ignition key,
where are you about?
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Hi,
thanks for that - if the immobiliser was causing problems, what would the symptoms be? At the moment, the engine's right on the edge of firing, but just won't catch - what does it do if you try and start it with the immobiliser armed? I've only ever had it set the alarm off when it's set normally...
I haven't got a clue what the EKA code for my Defender is - is there any way to find it out?
Thanks for your help,
Paul
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just as you have described on the verge of starting but wont
with the petrol disco you can bypass the spider in the imobiliser land rovers crap electronics
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Hi,
that sounds like fun, then - bypass the spider?!
If I tried arming and then disarming the alarm before trying to start it, do you think that would indicate whether it's an imobiliser problem?
Thanks for your help,
Paul
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i spent days on mine checked the spark yep got a spark checked the plugs yep got fuel checked compression yep good compression last resort go on the disco forum ah immobiliser pulled the dash apart resoldered the apparent conections that were cracked instant fire up for a few times then he haw back to the forum more instructions bypass the bit of crap with a few wires and it has went alright since funny thing i was on the range rover sport forum today and they have more crap electronic gismos been out for years and still not sorted the faults they must buy there components for pennies when they can hire replacement cars and stealers rates for the sake of quality parts factory parts crap factory supplied tyres crap monkeys for spanner men and dick turpin behind the custommer counter these cars are 60-100 thousand pounds so how do tata make money they would make even more if the product were to work have fun with the spider i did
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Thanks for that - I'll have a look into it, although I can't find for definite whether the Td5 Defender actually has a spider immobiliser - some sites say the immobiliser is controlled by the ECU and some say there's a BCU that controls it. I don't think my Defender has a BCU (it doesn't have anything it would control), but it wouldn't surprise me if it was all part of the ECU.
I think I'm going to try and get it to LR, have them run my wallet through a mangle and see if they can't figure it out with their diagnostic kit...
Thanks for your help,
Paul
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the td5 doesnt have a spider , it has a 10as mounted in the dash,
when you turn ignition on what comes on the dash?
do you get the full assortment of lights? glow plug, cel. oil pressure & charge?
does the fuel pump run?
do the guages move or go off the scale?
in general a td5 isnt that complicated a setup, its just ocasionally plauged with stupid problems
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Ive got a TD5 Defender, when the imobliser operates a red flashing light shows on the dash, and I believe I get a solid red light on the speedo as well as the wagon wont even turn over until I reset it with either the key fob or the key code.
If the Landrover is turning over but not cathcing I doubt its a TD5 imobliser problem.
Not sure the best way of checking for a td5.
Traditionally if a desiel will turn over but not catch its either fuel, air or compression is one of the faults, I imagine the oil in the old loom interfered with the fuel in the injectors, but now thats fixed I wouldn't be sure how to fix the problem, sorry mate, would be interesting to know what the outcome is.
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Hi,
thanks for your continued help...
When I turn on the ignition, I get all the lights I'm supposed to have - the only thing that's obviously wrong is the temp gauge, which goes off-scale towards zero. The fuel pump runs fine and I can force it to prime the engine with the five presses of the accelerator, but it doesn't help.
When I turn the key, the engine turns over fine and is on the "edge" of starting, but just won't catch - I know the fuel's fine, I'm not sure about the glow plugs, but it's warm enough not to need them I would have thought... While the engine's turning over, the glow plug light flickers on and off, as does the engine light. My immobiliser light (round red light in the speedo) behaves as normal.
I took apart and cleaned the red ECU plug again today - a bit of oil, but nothing too bad. I also checked all the relay connections and fuses under the drivers seat - they were all fine, apart from the large black Lucas relay in the rear corner, where one of the connections (to terminal G) had completely corroded through...
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9289/dscf1755k.jpg)
I've replaced all the bad wiring and connectors, but it still won't start.
I'm still suspecting either the immobiliser (although it seems to be working fine as far as I can tell) or, now, one of the relays under the driver's seat - I can't find a definitive guide as to what they all do, though - if anyone can help, it'd be much appreciated.
I've read on some forum somewhere that "the yellow relay" can cause intermittent starting problems - not a lot to go on, but I'm willing to whip them out, test them and see if any are defunct once I know what they do...
Thanks,
Paul
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there must be one of us local to you with a nanocom , where are you ?
i am in dunfermline area
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I'm 5 miles south of Elgin, up in the hills towards Rothes...
I've just tried turning it over again and I can hear one of the relays under the drivers seat clicking like mad as the engine turns over - I suspect it's the glow-plug relay, which I think is the larger Lucas relay, as the glow-plug light also flicks on and off like mad as the engine turns over...is that normal?
Paul
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Can anybody tell me where all the earth straps are on a Defender 110, please?
I think there's supposed to be one from the battery to the transfer box, another to the chassis near there and another from the engine block to one of the engine mounts.
If anybody knows the part numbers, that would b very helpful, too...
I thought I'd check they're all accounted for and not corroded away to nothing - I thought it might be the cause of my erratic temp gauge...
Paul
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from battery to transfer box and transfer box to chassis, mine failed this week and melted the handbrake cable, found this after fitting a new cable :'(
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Hello,
right, stop me if you're getting fed up with this, as it is turning into a bit of a saga ::)
I managed to track down a replacement for the 70A relay that possibly has something to do with the glow-plugs - I decided to replace it on the grounds that the wiring had corroded at the G connector and had melted back along the loom about 10cm, so I thought the heat might have cooked the relay too.
Anyway...it still wouldn't start with the new relay, so I took out the other two relays and tested them ("main" relay and who knows what - ABS apparently, but there's no ABS on my Defender) and they both work fine. I haven't tested the Voltage Sensitive Switch (AMR3325), as I don't know how to and I don't know what it does - some people say it's for the lights, others say it's a split-charge relay, but there's no split-charge system on my Defender...
So, I thought "what the hell" and decided to hold it on the starter until I'd flattened the battery but, b :o gger me if it didn't cough into life after about twenty seconds...but with a new and interesting racket coming from the new 70A relay. Listening to it via a long screwdriver, it's switching on and off like mad, so why's it doing that?
My temperature gauge is still jammed full-scale to zero - I've cleaned the contacts at the temperature sender, but that didn't help (I didn't think it would). Just to see what difference it made, I disconnected the MAF sensor and the wires to the EGR vacuum relay - that made no difference, either...I also cleaned the electrical plug going to the FPR valve, but with similar lack of any obvious effect.
So...can anybody tell me what the three relays and the Voltage Sensitive Switch actually do under the drivers seat? If anybody can suggest why this 70A relay is presumably being thrashed to death by the ECU, that'd be dead helpful, too...at least I might be able to get the stupid thing to LR now and see if they can figure it out.
As always, many thanks for your patience and help,
Paul
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as a suggestion,
having had a odd temp guage problem before on a 90 is run an earth from the battery to the earth point of the ecu, there is a small black wire that is in the ecu loom & iirc its earthed on one o the ecu bolts,
that tray is they connected to the seat box by hope & glory which then earths to the body work & back to the battery & ive found can make the guages read odd,
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Thanks for the tip - I'll try that...
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I've got my Defender back on the road, but I don't think I ever figured out what the problem was...
Here's what I did, though:
Checked all the earth straps - they were fine
Added an earth cable from the earthing point under the drivers seat to the ECU (just in case)
Changed the "main" relay and the 70A (glowplug?) relay and repaired the corroded/melted wiring under the drivers seat
Changed the injector harness and cleaned all the oil out of the red ECU connector
Got rid of the EGR valve (with a bypass kit)
Replaced the vacuum pipe from the alternator/pump to the brake servo
Disconnected/Reconnected the ECU about a dozen times in the process
A local garage got the ECU to talk to their diagnostic kit and told me there was a list of errors "as long as your arm", although a lot of them were as a result of me unplugging things. There was nothing obviously related to the starting problem or any recurrent errors, so we cleared them all and I'll see if any turn up again after a couple of weeks.
I think some of what I did must have helped, as the temperature gauge is now behaving itself, but as to what the actual starting problem was, I've no idea...
Paul