Difference between Series IIA & Series III

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Tommy B

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Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« on: August 08, 2014, 05:55:46 PM »
Hope this isn't a daft question (I'm sure you'll let me know if it is!!) - but how do you tell the difference between a Series IIA and a Series III?  I've seen an abandoned 109" pick-up, 1969 if the reg number is correct. I believe the front grills a different, but the front wings/grill/bonnet have been replaced with defender parts, so that doesn't help.

Appreciate your help.
Tom.
Never Apologise - Never Explain                     (Sorry, I should say I read that in a book somewhere!!)

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lurch032003

Re: Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 11:28:53 PM »
Hinges 3 are square series2s are more knuckle sane look as rear door
Head lights series 3 in wings series to in radiator grill
Grill series 3 plastic series 2a metal mesh
Dash series 3 plastic and dual in front if steering wheel  series 2a no plastic and dials in middle
HTH
There is loads of differences try a google search on history of landrovers foot more info

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genem

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  • I'm not completely daft. Some pieces are missing.
  • Name: Gene Maxwell
Re: Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 12:26:51 AM »
If it is genuinely a 69 then its 2A, Series 3 production is 71 onwards. As John says, lots of cosmetic changes mostly involving plastic.... The head-lights in the wings is the usual "give-away" but actually they started doing that on late 2As so its not fool-proof. Mechanically the difference is, roughly, an all-sychromesh gearbox and 5 main-bearing engine. Note a lot of S2s got later fronts to "update" them, just like a fair few S3s got defender fronts.... Chassis number is the solid dating evidence.

The way to remember it is that the Series 1 was the prototype, they perfected the design with the Series 2/2A and then it all started to go down-hill with the Series 3 and increasing levels of bling, until you end up with the Evoke....

:-)

http://www.winwaed.com/landy/history/series3.shtml
If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....

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Dogmatix

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  • Name: Dave
Re: Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 11:30:07 AM »
When I bought my Series 2A it had the headlights mounted in the wings.
They can be quite difficult to identify without looking closer. The most obvious thing on mine was the instruments, ignition, etc. mounted in the centre of the dash above the gear lever.
If it's a 'genuine' 1969 plate then it should be a Series 2A. If it's been messed about with then the registration documents are probably the nearest you'll get to the truth.  :P

Last paragraph of Genem's post sums it up perfectly.  :)
Man has achieved great things armed with a large hammer and a good working knowledge in profanity..........

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Tommy B

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Re: Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 03:35:31 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.
Never Apologise - Never Explain                     (Sorry, I should say I read that in a book somewhere!!)

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Tugboat

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Re: Difference between Series IIA & Series III
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 12:59:58 PM »
Note, Tommy, the 2a had headlamps in the wings from the start of 1969 until the S3 came in in 1971; your abandoned "1969" pickup could be genuine with either headlamp setup.

Judging by what I see on ebay and so on, there seem to be a lot of S3s masquerading as (deceased/scrapped) S2s, no doubt with the aim of getting tax free status, so the documents and the chassis number on the bulkhead plate don't necessarily tell the true story.

Easy to check tell-tales are:-

Bulkhead: the S2a bulkhead is very different from the one on the S3, the most obvious features being:  the S2a has a metal instrument panel mounted in the middle; the windscreen hinge brackets are flat plates welded to the outer edge of the bulkhead (and similar flat plates welded to the outer edge of the screen frame); the door hinges protrude similar to those fitted to the rear safari doors, they're not "flat" like the S3's.

Heater: in the S2a it'll be a recirculator fitted in the cab under the instrument panel; in 1969 it would almost certainly be the square Smiths type. The S3 has a much more powerful "fresh air" heater with the working parts mounted inside the front wing above the passenger footwell, with an air intake on the side of the wing.

Rear axle: the 2a 109 will have a Rover rear axle on which the diff unit is removed by taking it out of the FRONT of the axle casing. The S3 109 has a Salisbury axle on which the diff unit is removed through an opening in the REAR of the casing so it has a very obvious bolted-on diff cover plate at back.

Fuel tank: the 2a 109 will have the fuel tank under the driver's seat (except station wagons and .... maybe 6 cylinder versions?) with the filler in the same place as on the 88, i.e., next to the driver's door. This carried over to the first year or so of the S3 109 after which the tank was moved to the centre rear of the chassis with a filler behind the o/s rear wheel arch. Ex military S2 to late S3 109s mostly have the tank under the driver's seat with the filler cap directly on top of the tank.

Grille: the headlamp-in-wings 2a should have a galvanised steel mesh "maltese cross" grille but since fitting a plastic S3 grille was a cheap and quick "improvement", most of them lost the originals early on. To my shame, I "modernised" my 1970 grille circa 1978 but fortunately I kept the bits.

Gearbox: the 2a has no synchro on 1st and 2nd (the S3 is all-synchromesh). I feel the "throw" of the lever is considerably more between 1st and 2nd than in the notchy S3 box. If original, the gearlever will be noticeably cranked on the 2a, possibly with a mushroom shaped knob but this changed to spherical like the S3 around late 69. The straight-cut first gear on the 2a (helical cut on S3) will give its characteristic noise if you know what to listen for.

Obviously things like gearboxes and axles get changed but I'd be especially wary of a S2a wearing a S3 bulkhead unless there were sufficient other factors there to convince me it was the vehicle it was claiming to be and that the bulkhead was a bona fide replacement.