SLROC Forum
General Category => TECHNICAL CHAT => Topic started by: The Classic Man on July 30, 2012, 10:03:17 AM
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My Disco Td5 is a bit sluggish, turbo appears to be ok, I have been told using supermarket fuel can cause sludge in system. Has anyone had any problems with this fuel.
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Not I.
Supermarket fuel may contain (and probably does) a percentage of alternative fuels..
These other fuels if ept for long periods can sludge up as bacteria grows. A problem in the marine trade as yachts tend to fill only a few times a year, and ten leave the fuel lying for 6 months.
I wouldn't have thought it to be a proble with the car as the diesel soon needs topping up. Maybe I sould fit sails to the bus :P
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Don't know about slushing but it's certainly nowhere near as good as the big brands - mainly bp.
The borrowed van I have smokes like a chimney on tesco but was considerably better on normal bp and nearly
Gone on bp ultimate
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supermarket fuel does cause problems on average recovering 3 cars a week for this problem when changing filter after emptying fuel tank filters are always black used to fill my recovery truck at morrisons all the time performance dropped then one day it cut out had to be towed in took filter off was black inside filters had only been on truck 5 weeks changed them 5 weeks later same fault changed filters again only use bp or shell now and have had no problems
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Our work vans have been filling up at Sainsburys for over a year now, and we've had absolutely zero problems with supermarket fuel, milage has been consistent, nothing picked up at servicing, filters etc. So I wonder if location could be an issue, or the supermarket chain involved perhaps?
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i think its brand dependant and to do with the ammount of bioethanol in.
end user would notice if thy kept detailed MPG figures.
my non landrover vehicle does 550miles motorway driving at 70mph if filled at anywhere bar tesco or esso consistantly off a brimmed tank
fill up at tesco/esso and it gives me about 80 miles less for the same driving brim to brim so i think the penny or 2 a litre is worth the extra mpg
ill purposly avoid tesco fuel now as it seems to be garbage - was recovered from a tescos once after i filled up - started moved away from the pump to the air pump went in and paid - came out and it just would not start , turn over but just not fire , checked lines for holes , checked air filter for blockage , checked fuel filter - as your man above says - BLACK - changed that and it roared into life.
i always try to put shell fuel in the landy just because ive never had an issue with it - i do realise this is probably placebo effect but its best to try and eliminate most variables when dealing with old landys even if it will run on anything combustable.....
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The Fuel Tankers in Scotland pull into the Refinery or Depot & collect the 'To meet the required standard fuel'
Some retailers might have their Additives or detergents added.
(during the shortage some fuel arrived in sea going tankers & went to depots, but it will also have been at least meeting minimum standards'
Then there is Scotlands winter Diesel thats going to the filling station tanks from about November till March each year. South might have different times for 'anti waxing winter diesel' and it differs across Europe which months on location'
Its only diesel with the Government Duties and taxes added & its going into vehicles that will pretty much run on anything.
To do 3 gallons less per tankful than a Branded Diesel is amazing.
Those diesel engines in more basic Diesels will run on many things as we know, many kinds of oils.
Now fancier ones might require something different, but 10-15 % less from one regular diesel to another needs serious looking at!
george
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I do well over 30,000 miles a year between the Golf and the 90. The only difference I've noticed between supermarket fuel and Shell/BP/Esso is the price.
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my miles were not in the 90.....
modern PSA diesel engine.
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Are we talking Peugeot, Citroen, Ford & HDi, ?
they were modern once right enough.
george
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modern enough when most of us have on here 200/300tdis .....and to be too fussy for veg oil :(
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Supermarket fuel does seem to be worse I agree.
I personally believe the problems all relate to the new low sulphur diesel fuels and there associated bio fuel content. The black stuff you see in filters is known in the marine trade as Diesel Bug, a bacterial growth which lives and grows in the interface between diesel and water; all diesel contains a small amount of water, we are talking parts per million here. Now I am guessing cheaper fuels contain more water, and following lots of research by marine trade bodies we know that add bio fuel to the mix and bacteria growth goes into overdrive!
The marine trade after much legal fighting with the goverments and the EU can still supply old style high sulphur no bio fuel red diesel after the safety implications of diesel bug were highlighted.
I know from a mate who works in a large HGV servicing outfit that even lorries now have issues with diesel bug so at some point the problem will occur in cars and landrovers irrespective of mileage. Location may be an issue as well, quiter stations with stagnent fuel in the tanks or old tanks may well have the bacteria growing in the storage tanks and be contaminating fuel which arrives clean.
Personally I add fuel a marine fuel treatment to the diesel which goes into our car and the landie, after using 3 tanks in the zafira the MPG climbed by 7% using the same fuel station so it does make a difference ???
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I do well over 30,000 miles a year between the Golf and the 90. The only difference I've noticed between supermarket fuel and Shell/BP/Esso is the price.
I've done about 36k in my Volkswagen Passat CC (funnily enough a company car) in the last year, I tend to fill up at Tesco and get the club-card points unless I get caught short somewhere and it's usually Esso. Regularly get 50-55 mpg which is roughly 700-800 on a tank between fills depending on when the light comes on.
I agree with Gene - the only difference I see is the price.
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I never usually use anything but Shell in my Disco 300Tdi.
However with Morrisons giving a 6p a litre discount i don't mind filling with half a tank onto my Shell.
I also stick some 2 stroke oil in every time I fill up at approx 200 to 1.
This helps lubrication and i have convinced my self that there is a difference,
Going on a trip up North for 10 days or so and will record accurately my MPG and will advise on my return
cheers
Jim A
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1996 Disco 300Tdi auto(Jap reimport)
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hi i do not use supermarket fuel as my diesel engines.. It contains too mucn cerosine..heating oil. It is not as clean as the big brands. Heating oil has No lubricant and will cause friction in your pump and it will need replaced or rebuilt. I also found that it give me 3mpg less. It is a big brother scamm.
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Most supermarket fuel comes from Greenergy , Tesco have a BIG stake ;)
http://www.greenergy.com/
Read up all the small print you can find - not without problems ::)
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http://www.greenergy.com/News/press_archive/2008/Largest_independent_oil_company_in_Scotland..pdf
A very good job they do to.
Tesco Momentum petrol 99 RON is a good product at a good price if you need to run a minimum of 98 RON, and do not want to pay Shell V Power or BP prices.
george
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This is a subject that I have researched, mainly due to the fungi that formed in our own 2500 litre white diesel tank. There is a huge difference in the quality of fuel. The more Bio- fuel at the pumps=more water in fuel. Hence the "fungi" that grows and hence the higher freezing point of some diesels in winter. I don't know any diesel engines that run on water and I am certainly not adding it to my cars injection pump!
We have had a problem with storing diesel to the extent that we have removed our tank. Brogan fuels have told us the solution is to add a chemical to the tank to kill the bio fungus!! So, the government make us all "go green" by selling us crappy diesel than ask us to add a nasty chemical to it to kill the fungus that forms on the water in the fuel!! I am sure that makes sense to somebody!! Why not sell us the right fuel in the first place!
So, bear in mind when you fill up at the supermarket that you are adding a watery bio mixture that contains small mushrooms and that freezes in winter at around -10. Good one prime minister, I am glad I pay you all my taxes..................
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http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/185485-Winter-diesel
Luckily it is Supermarket fuels with high turn over & quality controls that are less likely to the modern problems.
(always risks with where ever you go to buy from, some people are easier to get to admit than others if mistakes are made at stations tanks,
& it is possible to get compensation from them due to the number of people liable to have been effected, and it being difficult to brush off.)
Condensation can well be a problem, which is why it is good to keep the vehicles tank filled as often as possible in winter & when sitting in active for any period of days during the winter.
Plant, agricultural, Private, Marine storage & overground certainly requires lots of considerations.
http://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/diesel
http://www.cumminspower.com/www/literature/technicalpapers/PT-9009-UltraLowSulfur.pdf
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further to my previous email regarding trip north and mpg
Disco 300Tdi auto (jap reimport. Checked by filling brim to brim every time.
As said, normally fill with Shell but had 6p discount for Morrison so had half tank Shell/ half tank Morrison to start with. Shell garage in Elgin has closed, BP diesel pumps empty, filled up firstly with Asda, then back to Shell when home now.
Total mileage was 678 miles, about 400 on the A80/M80/M9/A9 up and down with 278 local touring.
overall consumption came out at 28.84mpg, brilliant. Speed on main rds was as near to legal limit as was safe.
I use cruise control where possible.
I also put 2 stroke oil in every time I fill up at ratio of 200 to 1. To assist lubrication of pump etc.
look forward to comments
cheers
Jim A
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1996 300 Tdi auto(Jap reimport)
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Here are we arguing about fractions of an mpg, bio or non etc....The bigger question is why the hell are we paying such outrageous prices. I'm just back from 2 weeks and 3000 miles in France. Supermarket fuel there works out at £1.13 a litre and as far as I know they do not have a large oilfield or two just off their coast.
.....better roads, way better service stations and only one short queue in the whole two weeks, caused by a accident up ahead. Overall a far better motoring experience than here. I'd be more than happy to pay the tolls if I could be guarenteed 80+ mph for hours at a stretch, which is what I've just had.
( Subsidiary question.... why is it that French truck drivers seem to be able to use two lane roads without causing the 3 mile tailbacks that our clowns do by "overtaking" when they are only going 0.0005 mph an hour faster than the other bloke ? Didn't see one single example of this totally jack behaviour once in the two weeks.)
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I think Genem it's because we're a nation that's been conditioned to just accept everything that the government says as fact, it was the same when I was working in the US, they were kicking up hell because they were paying nearly $3 a gallon, which roughly worked out equated to around 35/40p a litre! We really are sadly a nation of conformist sheep now!
Driving in the UK infuriates me most of the time, like you say, wagon drivers forced by law to sit at 40mph on all A+B class roads, and 56mph on motorways, idiots sitting on lane 2 of a 3 lane motorway, refusing to return to the left lane as soon as is possible, etc etc I could go on at some length but I'm betting most of you have seen what we're talking about.
On a lighter note though, I'm looking forward to picking up my new Td5 90 this week!
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That whole 56mph thing needs looked at again; the fuel burnt, road-rage created and general utter waste of time spent sitting in queues created by trucks is ridiculous. Either 56mph and only allowed to overtake on 3 lane sections or ...flat out.
....but I was amazed to be overtaken somewhere south of Paris by the worlds largest Campervan doing well in excess of 95 mph....... while towing a motorbike on a trailer.
G.
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It's the 40mph bit that really gets me, I drove down to Suffolk last weekend, A1 pretty much all the way, the amount of stupid overtakes on the single carriageway sections due to driver frustration was amazing, queues of upwards of 25 vehicles behind one wagon! So I can imagine what it's like being stuck behind them on the A9. In the relentless quest for road safety they have in fact made the roads more dangerous.
The 56 thing is a joke though, especially on motorways, they are essentially just a rolling road block, I drove trucks out in the US, 75mph on the Interstate and 60mph on state paved roads, the roads were no more dangerous than over here, i'd say that 90% of deaths on the roads out there were due to people not wearing seatbelts, resulting in being 'ejected' from the vehicles as they rolled over.
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Way to go Gene. (is this not an other thread)
Trucks crawling past each other has been a contentious issue for years and well before the 56mph speed limiters were first used (its actually 52mph when checked with GPS)
I have, for 5 years now, been timing cars after they overtake me to see how long it takes them to catch back up to the vehicle they were behind before I started to overtake a slower truck and I can state that 95% of the time its between 20 and 30 seconds, then they are back behind the car in front where they started.
As I think has been proved it is not other vehicles that cause the problems its the attitude of drivers thats the major problem, everybody is in a hurry these days, most people turn very selfish then they get behind the wheel, we are all guilty of it at some time, we need to blame someone, and its never ourselves thats at fault.
Until they invent a way of delivering goods that does away with trucks then they are here to stay. So until then. Stay safe; drive safe but most of all. Get over it.
Drew.
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Probably Right Drew - my rant should have been on another thread.
....and anyway, you are obviously a good and considerate driver. My beef is with the jack so and so's who create rolling road-blocks for minutes and miles at a time. I mind being stuck behind one of these clowns for over 10 minutes once - the car in front was out of sight, at home and on his second cup of tea before the rest of us could catch up !
:-)
G.
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Gene, I have never seen this and to be honest there is no need for it, it will happen when a truck starts passing a slower truck uphill, then on the level the slower truck will get back to 56 probably whilst part of the other truck is alongside, all the inside driver has to do is ease off a little for only a few seconds and let the truck in lane 2 pass safely OR read his highway code which will tell him what not to do when being overtaken.
After rereading my reply I found it a bit sharp. It was most definitely not intending to wind you or anybody else up. Like most guys when young, I thought I was invincible and looking back I took some stupid risks but back then when 1.3 cortinas were a babe magnet (that is yet another thread) if you went into a corner to fast you just spun out, the roads are a lot different now and the cars much more capable with the average speeds higher and the safety structure much stronger which gives people a false sense of security.
I admit im a bit touchy with road safety. Ive been driving trucks fulltime since 1988 and have seen many accidents where arms and legs are at unusual angles and not always at the joints. I witnessed a fatal accident caused by an impatient male driver who tried an overtake whilst going round a lefthand sweeping bend, after the tyre smoke cleared an innocent lady driver (in a Land Rover Defender) was killed when she hit the steering wheel/column with her chest after hitting the car head on. You cant give CPR when the chest is crushed, I know, I tried. I found this experience life changing (on many levels) saying what happened at court is stressful, explaining how you tried to save the lady is upsetting, and after the court, being thanked by her parents for trying your best is extremely humbling and upsetting and I would not wish the experience on anyone. When driving 10 seconds can change your life in ways you cant imagine or have not thought about.
The answer to almost all these "accidents" is slow down a bit and drop back from the vehicle in front, you will still get there, you wont be late.
If I could give 1 piece of advice it would be have a go at Advanced Driving, there are local groups all over Scotland with either RoSPA or the IAM, the training is free, and is based on the same system as the Traffic Police use, infact you will be tested by a serving Traffic Police examiner, you can do it in any class of vehicle as the training is based on how you drive not on what you drive, its not easy but is a real eye opener.
Thats my rant (therapy session) over.
On a positive note and to put this back on thread, Ive noticed over the last few months that people are slowing down, cars and even white van man are starting to sit at 50 on A class roads, so although the supermarkets are charging less for their fuel, its still a large bill at the end of the month, there are positive sides even to high fuel prices.
Drew.